Home Reading Searching Subscribe Sponsors Statistics Posting Contact Spam Lists Links About Hosting Filtering Features Download Marketing Archives FAQ Blog From: Frederik Eaton a5.repetae.net> Subject: Re: Mixing monadic and non-monadic functions Newsgroups: gmane.comp.lang.haskell.general Date: Thursday 8th September 2005 20:30:51 UTC (over 12 years ago) On Thu, Sep 08, 2005 at 09:30:34AM -0700, Scherrer, Chad wrote: > One of Mark Jones's articles suggests something like > > class Plus a b c | a b -> c where > (+) :: a -> b -> c > > Would > > instance (Plus a b c, Monad m) => Plus (m a) (m b) (m c) where > mx + my = do x <- mx > y <- my > return (x + y) > > do what you're looking for? Hi Chad, I'm not sure exactly what you have in mind. Obviously I want something that applies to all functions, with any number of arguments, and not just (+). Furthermore, it should handle cases like 1+[2,3] where only one value is monadic. Keean Schupke's suggestion sounds more likely to be useful, but I'm still reading it. In any case, a minimum of syntactic overhead is desired. Frederik > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Original message: > > Hi, > > Sean's comment (yeah, it was like a billion years ago, just catching > up) is something that I've often thought myself. > > I want the type system to be able to do "automatic lifting" of monads, > i.e., since [] is a monad, I should be able to write the following: > > [1,2]+[3,4] > > and have it interpreted as "do {a<-[1,2]; b<-[3,4]; return (a+b)}". > > Also, I would have > > Reader (+1) + Reader (+4) == Reader (\x -> 2*x+5) > > The point I want to make is that this is much more general than IO or > monads! I think we all understand intuitively what mathematicians mean > when they add two sets > > {1,2}+{3,4} (i.e. { x+y | x\in {1,2}, y\in {3,4}}) > > or when they add functions > > (f+g)(x) where f(x)=x+1 and g(x)=x+4 > > So "automatic lifting" is a feature which is very simple to describe, > but which gives both of these notations their intuitive mathematical > meaning - not to mention making monadic code much tidier (who wants to > spend their time naming variables which are only used once?). I think > it deserves more attention. > > I agree that in its simplest incarnation, there is some ugliness: the > order in which the values in the arguments are extracted from their > monads could be said to be arbitrary. Personally, I do not think that > this in itself is a reason to reject the concept. Because of currying, > the order of function arguments is already important in Haskell. If > you think of the proposed operation not as lifting, but as inserting > aps: > > return f ap x1 ap ... ap xn > > then the ordering problem doesn't seem like such a big deal. I mean, > what other order does one expect, than one in which the arguments are > read in the same order that 'f' is applied to them? > > Although it is true that in most of the instances where this feature > would be used, the order in which arguments are read from their monads > will not matter; yet that does not change the fact that in cases where > order *does* matter it's pretty damn easy to figure out what it will > be. For instance, in > > print ("a: " ++ readLn ++ "\nb: " ++ readLn) > > two lines are read and then printed. Does anybody for a moment > question what order the lines should be read in? > > Frederik > > -- http://ofb.net/~frederik/
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