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From: Sean Schofield <sean.schofield <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Non-discussion emails
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.jakarta.struts.devel
Date: Tuesday 17th January 2006 19:14:51 UTC (over 12 years ago)
I agree with Ted about the importance of mailing lists.  Mailing lists
are the "Apache Way."  The only time I have used off-llist
communication is during an infrastructure move where we needed to
rapidly complete several steps in a short period of time.  Even then
the basic outline of work was agreed to in advance on the mailing

Mailing lists may seem outdated but they are the lifeblood of the ASF
and they continue to serve us well.  There may be more rapid ways of
communicating (phone calls and internet chat come to mind) but these
are exclusionary.  The community is world wide and people have day
jobs.  It takes a little longer to hash things out over email but
everyone gets to participate this way.

The result is a single archive that is publicly searchable and
contains all relevant decisions (no matter how trivial) in one place.

My .02


On 1/17/06, Patrick Lightbody  wrote:
> Ted,
> I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but you seem to imply that I don't
have any experience with this sort of stuff. I do.
> We too at OpenSymphony use mailing lists quite heavily (as does every
other decent open source project out there). However, as technologies like
RSS have grown more popular, we adapted. Now we get our wiki changes and
CVS changes through RSS (Confluence and FishEye both provide RSS feeds). We
also offer the option of email messages, but that is up to the individual.
> Conversations still continue around wiki changes and commits. For those
that subscribe to the mailing lists, they simply forward the message to the
dev list. For those that don't, they simply post a new message asking,
"John, can you explain why you changed Foo.java yesterday?".
> Try to understand where I'm coming from: the wiki and commit changes
aren't interesting to me (I don't have time to look through any of them).
Not just for Struts, but for WebWork too. Instead, I do weekly reviews.
With Struts, I just delete those messages as they come in. And when I look
at the forums:
> http://forums.opensymphony.com/forum.jspa?forumID=34
> I see "NO NOT REPLY" and "[Struts Wiki]", making it just as difficult for
me to keep up with the other conversations. I didn't mean to imply that
those messages sometime don't spur a conversation, but pragmatically 99% of
the chatter I've seen does not come from them.
> I definitely understand where you are coming from, and I hope you can see
where I'm coming from. Often when people have different work behaviors, the
best bet is to provide more options. This can be done by somehow allowing
individuals to opt out of those generated emails. I hope we can do
something about this.
> Patrick
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