On Monday 04 June 2007 1:49:32 pm Erik Hovland wrote:
> I read the log. But I think it would be helpful if you tried to write up
> the proposal. The IRC log does not lend itself to conciseness.

Yes, it's not the easiest to understand, but I posted it so everyone could see 
exactly what everyone else said with no paraphrasing. I'll write up an 
official proposal when I get a chance.

> So in an attempt to help, I am going to try to sum up what you have
> proposed.
>
> The proposal you have put forward is that the domain name
> opie.handhelds.org is going to point to a host that is under the control
> of your employer and that you will administrator.

Just to clarify, the physical server belongs to me personally. It's connected 
at my employer who pays for the power (ups & generator) and bandwidth (t1 and 
cable).

> The mailing lists 
> opie <at> handhelds.org and opie-devel <at> handhelds.org will actually go through
> this host and the archives at:
> http://www.handhelds.org/hypermail/opie/current/
> http://www.handhelds.org/hypermail/opie-devel/current/
> Would also be hosted at this host. 

Correct

> And the cvs repo at cvs.handhelds.org 
> would move to this host in whatever SCM system it provides. The IRC log
> says that the current available SCM is subversion and that trac is
> available for the webified pieces of this. I currently have no issues
> with that SCM. I prefer to stay with the current mantis system at
> oszine.de for bug tracking. But it may be desirable to move that system
> to this new proposed host.

The advantage of Trac is how the SCM and Bug tracking system ties together 
easily. I'm not saying that is what we are definitely going to use, but 
that's my current suggestion. Apparently, there are also plugins for Trac for 
other SCM's like git, but I'm not sure how stable they are.

> Ben gets permission to use the Opie trademark. This has actually already
> been granted. There is no dispute on my part to this move. I think it is
> an excellent step.

George is sending me a lawyerfied letter stating just that.

> Ben or someone else we all agree to gets 'control' of the IRC channel
> #opie on freenode. Is there another channel worth lumping into this
> agreement?

Getting #opie up and running is the first step. It seems the freenode people 
sent hh.org a letter asking them to unify the channel names, and thats what 
started the whole #handhelds-opie/#opie-project thing. Right now, I'm going 
to leave that alone, and just get #opie back up. We can deal with the channel 
name and freenode's request later.

> The project that is "OpieII" has to move from linuxtogo to opie.hh.org
> to continue to use that name. This includes any repo, mailing list,
> archive, bugs (I recognize that we will not receive anything in the
> linuxtogo bugzilla but the OpieII bugs) and website.

Moving the project is more of a sign of goodwill and an olive branch to the 
rest of the Opie community that may have been affected by the split, then it 
is a trademark issue. George's olive branch is moving the hosting to me. That 
being said, this will also resolve the trademark issue with OpieII.

> There is mention of using both the hh.org community council and the code
> of conduct. But it is not exactly clear what capacity that is in or who
> should be on the community council. I suggest that Opie get at least one
> person on that council who isn't me and that it be a position that
> someone in the Opie community always has w/in the council. That person
> would have to be agreed on by the Opie community.

I told George that if we could work though this issue with the Opie project, 
and get the community patched back together, I would be willing to take a 
place on this Community Council. I also mentioned that it would be good to 
have at least 5 members, which he agreed with. Note that this council would 
handle many hh.org matters, and not be limited to Opie.

> I consider this a good starting point. I think we have some important
> details to hammer out. But these steps are agreeable to me. I would
> likely endorse this proposal as it stands so far to Rene, George
> and Russ.
>
> Some things I consider important but are not mentioned:
> 1. Anyone involved with this deal has to agree to the code of conduct. I
>    have already agreed to it myself as a familiar developer.

I agree

> 2. Anyone involved with this deal has to agree to follow any
>    instructions that come out of the community council.

I agree

> 3. The hatchet has to be buried. If there is anything that has to be
>    worked out between individuals, they get a set period to work that
>    out. But after that, the slate is basically wiped clean. Mention of
>    any of the things that happened during the "dark period" will likely
>    be interpreted by the Opie community as bad form if the invoker is
>    not very careful in how they bring it up.

I agree.

> 4. We have to work out the long term contingencies of the consequences
>    of Ben's relationship with his employer and who backs up Ben. This is
>    a reality highlighted by the CRL closure that we cannot ignore.

Yes. I don't plan on hosting opie.handhelds.org forever.

> 5. We could use some guidelines as to who is a community member. How
>    they come in, how they retire and how we audit who stays and who goes
>    (how do we determine who to ask if they still want to be in the
>    community based on inactivity).

I still have to look over how Ubuntu does it, since that is where the system 
comes from.

> 6. We should have an agreement on what happens to the trademark once it
>    finishes the USPTO process or if the process should be stopped. I
>    don't personally think it should be stopped, someone we all trust
>    should own it. If that is Ben, hh.org or a different third party I
>    have no problem discussing that.

I also agree that the trademark needs to be protected. I believe that no one 
person should have control over it, if that is at all possible. I think it's 
possible to pass it to hh.org inc., the non-profit org. Things relating to 
the trademark, and other trademarks, would be handled by the Community 
Counsel.

> 7. There ought to be a process or policy on how Opie can choose to leave
>    hh.org and what the community takes with them. It seems obvious, but
>    it is helpful to be explicit.

Yes. I suppose it's good to cover all the bases. It seems to me that the 
project can not take with them, even right now, is the name.

> Please don't consider what I say as terms. They are discussion points to
> help us figure out how to move forward. As a long time Opie user and
> only recent developer I recognize that I work within the system of
> greatness that Lorn, Max and Ben were a part of.

Same here. This is still wide open for discussion.

> If anymore discussion is going to happen via IRC, I would appreciate if
> it were announced on this list and that if George, Rene, Russ or myself
> want or think we need to be there that the community work with us to get
> a time when we can make it. I promise to do my best to make myself
> available for that.
>
> E

I'll see if I can get together an agenda and I'll announce a meeting soon.

Benjamin Long
AKA: Bipolar

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