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Gmane
From: Amir G. <amir73il <at> users.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v1 00/30] Ext4 snapshots
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.file-systems.ext4
Date: Tuesday 7th June 2011 16:31:58 UTC (over 6 years ago)
On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 6:56 PM, Lukas Czerner  wrote:
> Hi Amir,
>
> thanks very much for the resend. I'll take a look at the whole patch
> series, but first I want to bring up one important thing.
>
> While this being a huge feature for ext4 (regardless on how
> intrusive it is for the usual code paths) and while we already have
> patches in the list with people interesting in looking into them, you
> should clearly clarify what is the gain of it, what is the use case (and
> I know you have one), and why it is better than other approaches. You
> know, advertise it a bit in the marketing way :).

Hi Lukas,

Thank you for pointing out the marketing aspect.

I must admit that my user-case rather speaks for itself.
CTERA develops a NAS device which is specialized for
backing up local networks and snapshots gives the NAS a time
dimension without paying for it in disk space and performance.

The reason for not going with btrfs 3 years ago is clear.
So why not go with it now instead of moving forward to
ext4 with snapshots?
Part of the answer lies in the possibility to run fsck -x,
which gets rid of the snapshots in the case of fs corruption
and gets you back to good old stable and consistent ext4.

>
> There is some confusion among developers on what actually are benefits
> of ext4 snapshots in comparison to btrfs, or in comparison to the new
> dm_multisnap code. I know that you have done quite a lot of testing to
> assure that it does not actually change old ext4 behavior when snapshot
> disabled, and that it works well when enabled, but have you done any
> performance related benchmarks ? Do you have any expectations on how it
> should behave in different work loads ?
>
> It would be great to see and be able to confirm that ext4 snapshots are
> really a win, not only on the feature side, but on the performance side
> as well. I know that there are people out there still undecided or
> having a strange feeling about your snapshot work. But who can blame
> them, when we have not seen any hard data on this matter ?

Ehm.. I did present this benchmark on LSF:
http://global.phoronix-test-suite.com/index.php?k=profile&u=amir73il-4632-11284-26560

unless you snoozed ;-)
it shows performance vs. ext4 w/o snapshots and with snapshots
and while taking snapshots.
I did not compare with btrfs, but I bet there are ext4 vs. btrfs
benchmarks out there.
dm-multisnap is better than dm-snap only when it comes to overhead
per snapshot. it still copies every written block, which is far from
being the case in ext4 snapshots.

>
> So I, for myself, and I believe there are others, would like to see some
> benchmark numbers and comparison (both, features and performance) with at
> least new dm-multisnap code and probably btrfs and plain ext4 as well.
>
> Thanks!
> -Lukas
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am resending the snapshots patch series as per Lukas's request.
>> This time, the snapshot*.c files have not been omitted, as in
>> the previous posting.
>>
>> The series is still based on ext4 dev branch sometime in the preparation
>> for 3.0 merge window. It was not yet rebased on 3.0-rc1, so punch holes
>> changes have not been addressed yet.
>>
>> As always, I advocate online review of the patches at:
>> https://github.com/amir73il/ext4-snapshots/commits/for-ext4-v1
>> but if you insist on doing it the old way, I won't complain.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Amir.
>>
>> [PATCH v1 01/36] ext4: EXT4 snapshots (Experimental)
>> [PATCH v1 02/36] ext4: snapshot debugging support
>> [PATCH v1 03/36] ext4: snapshot hooks - inside JBD hooks
>> [PATCH v1 04/36] ext4: snapshot hooks - block bitmap access
>> [PATCH v1 05/36] ext4: snapshot hooks - delete blocks
>> [PATCH v1 06/36] ext4: snapshot hooks - move data blocks
>> [PATCH v1 07/36] ext4: snapshot hooks - direct I/O
>> [PATCH v1 08/36] ext4: snapshot hooks - move extent file data blocks
>> [PATCH v1 09/36] ext4: snapshot file
>> [PATCH v1 10/36] ext4: snapshot file - read through to block device
>> [PATCH v1 11/36] ext4: snapshot file - permissions
>> [PATCH v1 12/36] ext4: snapshot file - store on disk
>> [PATCH v1 13/36] ext4: snapshot file - increase maximum file size limit
to 16TB
>> [PATCH v1 14/36] ext4: snapshot block operations
>> [PATCH v1 15/36] ext4: snapshot block operation - copy blocks to
snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 16/36] ext4: snapshot block operation - move blocks to
snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 17/36] ext4: snapshot block operation - copy block bitmap to
snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 18/36] ext4: snapshot control
>> [PATCH v1 19/36] ext4: snapshot control - init new snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 20/36] ext4: snapshot control - fix new snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 21/36] ext4: snapshot control - reserve disk space for
snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 22/36] ext4: snapshot journaled - increase transaction credits
>> [PATCH v1 23/36] ext4: snapshot journaled - implement
journal_release_buffer()
>> [PATCH v1 24/36] ext4: snapshot journaled - bypass to save credits
>> [PATCH v1 25/36] ext4: snapshot journaled - cache last COW tid in
journal_head
>> [PATCH v1 26/36] ext4: snapshot journaled - trace COW/buffer credits
>> [PATCH v1 27/36] ext4: snapshot list support
>> [PATCH v1 28/36] ext4: snapshot list - read through to previous snapshot
>> [PATCH v1 29/36] ext4: snapshot race conditions - concurrent COW bitmap
operations
>> [PATCH v1 30/36] ext4: snapshot race conditions - concurrent COW
operations
>> [PATCH v1 31/36] ext4: snapshot race conditions - tracked reads
>> [PATCH v1 32/36] ext4: snapshot exclude - the exclude bitmap
>> [PATCH v1 33/36] ext4: snapshot cleanup
>> [PATCH v1 34/36] ext4: snapshot cleanup - shrink deleted snapshots
>> [PATCH v1 35/36] ext4: snapshot cleanup - merge shrunk snapshots
>> [PATCH v1 36/36] ext4: snapshot rocompat - enable rw mount
>>
>>  fs/ext4/Kconfig           |   11 +
>>  fs/ext4/Makefile          |    3 +
>>  fs/ext4/balloc.c          |  132 +++
>>  fs/ext4/ext4.h            |  188 ++++-
>>  fs/ext4/ext4_jbd2.c       |  162 ++++-
>>  fs/ext4/ext4_jbd2.h       |  266 ++++++-
>>  fs/ext4/extents.c         |  157 ++++-
>>  fs/ext4/file.c            |   11 +-
>>  fs/ext4/ialloc.c          |   19 +-
>>  fs/ext4/inode.c           |  668 +++++++++++++--
>>  fs/ext4/ioctl.c           |  120 +++
>>  fs/ext4/mballoc.c         |  161 ++++-
>>  fs/ext4/move_extent.c     |    3 +-
>>  fs/ext4/namei.c           |    9 +
>>  fs/ext4/resize.c          |   19 +-
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot.c        | 1000 ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot.h        |  690 ++++++++++++++++
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot_buffer.c |  393 +++++++++
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot_ctl.c    | 2002
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot_debug.c  |  107 +++
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot_debug.h  |  105 +++
>>  fs/ext4/snapshot_inode.c  |  960 ++++++++++++++++++++++
>>  fs/ext4/super.c           |  157 ++++-
>>  fs/ext4/xattr.c           |    4 +-
>>  24 files changed, 7182 insertions(+), 165 deletions(-)
>>
>>
>
> --
>
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