On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:31 PM, Dhaval Giani
> On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 7:19 PM, alex stone wrote:
>> So as jack users (non-coders), with many of us having invested
>> hundreds and possibly thousands of hours testing for our modest
>> community, not to mention the most definitely thousands of hours of
>> sweat and toil put in by the all too few jack/RT coders who have
>> valiantly laboured most generously for like minded users in a shared
>> desire to have great, professional quality, audio/midi/video tools as
>> viable alternatives to proprietary locked in apps, we are being
>> reduced to a single label, entitled "Linux User" to satisfy a generic
>> perception of what someone, somewhere thinks is the definition of what
>> we "should" be using? Regardless of the limitations this imposes,
>> which is something we accuse proprietary OS's of?
> Not really. As I mentioned, it is quite trivial to turn off all these
> features. I honestly cannot believe that adding an extra line in a
> configuration file will turn off users. If it is such a major issue,
> asking your distro to add that line by default should not be a
> problem. They should do so. Hey, if there are enough complaints,
> letting us know upstream will enable us to turn off the policy. I am
> aware of at least one distro which turns off the default group by
> default. But unless people let us know, we really cannot do something.
>> I respectfully wonder if the team that made this decision are aware of
>> the number of jack/RT users that actually pass through our little
>> village, or if the decisions being made are in earnest pursuit of a
>> wider generic user base, are reflective of an honest misunderstanding
>> of just how important jack/RT apps and infrastructure are for linux
>> users who would rather enjoy the superb stability of linux as a viable
>> professional system, over the angst that goes with the "others".
> Honestly. I was completely unaware that the jack folks were facing
> this issue until I saw the cgroups page. What upset me was that this
> page was put up, but no attempt made to contact the developers who are
> doing this work. (Not to mention inaccurate information). So I ask
> this question, are jack users this special case for which the
> developers should look out for, or like other users they let us know
> when they are facing issues?
>> I'm bewildered by the indifference to what i thought was a sizable and
>> significant chunk of the linux community. It seems i misjudged the
>> importance and superb performance of a jack based system, over the
> see above. I don't see jack as a special case. It would be very much
> appreciated if you let us knew you were facing issues. Its not that we
> want to make life tough for our users. But we need to know that we are
> making life tough for them :-). This works for most users, yes. If it
> were not, I am pretty sure we would have had tons of bug reports.
>> Now it seems we have to start again, yes? Based on what seems ever
>> increasing perception that all non coding linux users
>> Dhaval, i have no wish to offend you, but it looks as if you've posted
>> to us as some sort of apologetic afterthought. I appreciate you're in
>> a bit of a spot with this, but i hope you appreciate this will make
>> things more challenging for us, and make it even harder to encourage
>> new users into our village in the linux user community, when we will
>> have to walk fellow users though additional instructions to try and
>> get what we already had, and what was already challenging enough to
>> setup, for new initiates into the linux "way".
>> Are we really of so little significance in the wider linux world?
> Not really. Just a bit more noise would be great :-).
So no-one thought, while building this exciting new feature, to do a
quick test, or at least have a think about, of the significance of the
impact on jack/RT, given the nature of the feature as a scheduler, and
what many users think is JACK and jack based apps importance in the
Sort of confirms the indifference to jack/RT as a significant
component in the linux audio/midi/video world, doesn't it?
I guess there's no going backward from here, but it's a little
presumptious to assume non-coding users are going to hang around
kernel central, in the hope that we'll understand what you're about to
do, and fire a message back to those who do understand it, given
they're already working like trojans, (The human variety), for our
If we don't yell, we don't get considered?
I appreciate you took the time to respond, so i won't add anything else.